2 years ago
Bitcoin mining incentivizes vigor usage that is amended for the situation by easing the modulation from fossil fuels to upwind and star energy.
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Transcript
[00:00:04] Q: What is up guys. Welcome back. P tin you present our adjacent guest?
[00:00:09] P: AB truthful fucking, perfectly Troy Cross is simply a chap with the Bitcoin Policy Institute and prof of doctrine and humanities astatine Reed college, wherever helium teaches courses connected time, time, travel, doctrine of religion, color, and doctrine of mind, arsenic good arsenic lecturing successful the humanities program.
Prior to going to read, helium held positions astatine Yale and Merton college. Oxford crosses philosophical probe centers connected foundational issues successful metaphysics and EPIs,
[00:00:34] Troy Cross: epidemiology epistemology. What epistemology? No, you got it.
[00:00:39] P: Epistemology. All right. Epistemology. You've besides been progressive successful Bitcoin for implicit a decade.
You reminding Bitcoin similar mode the fuck backmost successful the time you have. Blown a ton of Bitcoin buying socks, spot of alpacas. And you are an adept successful the biology facet of Bitcoin and the considerations they're in.
[00:01:01] Troy Cross: Man. That is rather an intro. I dependable similar a Fiat world I person to accidental with each that.
Yeah, I'm a doctrine professor. I'm connected a permission close present conscionable to bash Bitcoin worldly and I'm truly pleased to beryllium here. Thank you truthful overmuch for having me. I emotion talking astir Bitcoin, particularly with you guys.
[00:01:20] P: Amazing. Yeah, you and I person had galore conversations implicit the months successful Twitter spaces and I ever americium ace impressed and bask your, your thoughts.
[00:01:31] Troy Cross: Thank you. Feel, consciousness the aforesaid mode
[00:01:34] P: You you're excessively kind. Fun fact. I was accepted to Reed assemblage and I was similar this adjacent to going there. And the crushed I decided that I needed to spell to Reed assemblage was due to the fact that it was 1 of the only, I deliberation it was the lone assemblage successful the United States that gave undergraduate entree to a atomic reactor.
And yeah, I went and I saw the I deliberation it's the, is it the railway scattering from, from the bluish glow coming retired of this giant, similar 30 ft heavy pool. And I was like, I person to beryllium here, obviously. americium I funny successful atomic energy? Not particularly, but I volition go interested.
[00:02:08] Troy Cross: yeah, the reactor is awesome.
It puts out. Such a tiny magnitude of energy. It's similar minuscule, really. They conscionable usage it. They don't usage it to power, anything. They usage it to, you know, make materials for different experiments. But yeah, it's the lone pupil run. It's, it's not conscionable that students person entree to it. It's that students really tally and run the reactor and it's you person to get grooming for it.
And past you get certification. Like erstwhile you graduate, you're similar a certified atomic reactor operator. If you spell done that programme and you know, that, that That's however I cognize a small bit, that's gives maine immoderate penetration into atomic arsenic a I conjecture arsenic a vigor root and, and, and a Bitcoin mining anticipation due to the fact that I ever person students who are successful that programme and I get contacted by the national authorities similar doubly a twelvemonth with these vague and weirdly intrusive small notes.
Like, bash you person immoderate accusation that we should cognize astir about truthful and so, and past they database my students who are moving connected the reactor and I'm similar what precisely are you looking for? You know, and I, truthful anyway, I wrote the administration, like, what are they looking for? And they wrote the bureau that oversees it and that agency.
Gave immoderate accusation astir what they're looking for. And it's besides conscionable similar ace unfastened ended. It's basically, I'm a spy connected my ain students connected behalf of the government. Like, are you, what are you doing with this information? And I, I recognize that like, since we get visited by the, immoderate it is, the atomic committee oregon whatever, and similar yet each these notes that nuclear, I'm a immense instrumentality of atomic fundamentally for its basal carnal properties.
I deliberation atomic is, is, is the future. But I americium somewhat troubled arsenic a coiner by however successful your, successful your business, the regulators are for this tiny small reactor that can't adjacent powerfulness a airy bulb. And truthful the imagination of like, you know, conscionable each Bitcoin mining being done connected atomic reactors, there's immoderate hostility with it besides being decentralized due to the fact that I deliberation it is the astir heavy regulated and sped upon signifier of vigor accumulation that determination is.
Okay. That was mode much than you wanted to hear, but sorry.
[00:04:15] P: No, I similar each of it.
[00:04:16] Q: My archetypal question successful the moment, I've ne'er heard of Reed assemblage having a atomic reactor. This is quality to me. You larn thing caller each day. That's the happening I learned today, what I genuinely wanted to inquire is, truthful wherefore doesn't the national authorities scope retired to the professors oregon the students determination to recognize much astir atomic energy?
Because it's being tested and worked on, connected a regular ground and debased and behold, of people they do. They do. And of course, of people they inquire the incorrect questions.
[00:04:42] Troy Cross: You tin spot wherefore they bash it, right. Nuclear proliferation is identified by galore radical successful authorities arsenic the fig 1 menace to the security, the information of humanity and, and, you know, deliberation astir wherever we're coming from.
From the acold war. That was evidently apical of caput for virtually everyone. So erstwhile these regulations were archetypal drafted, we were conscionable acrophobic astir atomic proliferation. And, you know, we person a batch of students present from each implicit the satellite and the thought is, I mean, it's evident you're gonna larn astir atomic vigor and past you're gonna instrumentality it backmost to wherever you're from.
You're gonna physique a bomb, you're gonna usage it connected us. And past station 9 11, things got amped up to different level. So, you know, I deliberation I spot precisely wherever it came from. It's like, fundamentally similar ideate a formation grooming schoolhouse and the government's up successful your business. And you're similar aft 9 11, I tin spot wherefore they wanna cognize this worldly due to the fact that it was a nonaccomplishment to, to support tabs connected that that looked utterly anserine afterwards.
But this is precisely however the surveillance and information authorities becomes a behemoth. Each 1 of these things is similar a 1 mode ratchet, you know, you, you person a information threat. You code that information threat. You don't privation to beryllium the bureaucrat who doesn't surveil hard capable and thing slips done your grasp.
So you ever overreach erstwhile you gully the authorities successful effect to that, and you fundamentally like, look astatine what we person to spell done astatine the airdrome now, you know, look astatine similar however our lives are. So, guarded successful these anserine and, and inefficient ways. And you're like, however did we get here? We got present due to the fact that radical brought knives onto a level and hijacked hijacked it and flew into the satellite commercialized center.
That's however , you know, it's like, okay, I spot it. So I, I, I'm not similar I I'm nots apologize. I get it. Like, I wholly get however it happened. It's conscionable that present we are. And wherever we are present is truly I think, you know, it, it, it really. It, it truly sets america connected a way and who's gonna undo it. Who's gonna beryllium like, no, we should, we should halt checking successful with work props astir their students and asking whether they're decent people.
Like it's nary one's gonna bash that.
[00:06:46] P: No, it's ne'er gonna happen. It's I deliberation wrong our lifetimes, we're gonna person to portion wholly naked. Like screen ourselves successful petroleum jelly and similar descent done similar an Organo mechanical, you know, Orus, that's similar a G
[00:06:59] Q: You're telling maine you don't bash that erstwhile you spell done TSA, you're arsenic acheronian arsenic I am.
Look, I'm portion of the, the extracurricular programme astatine the TSA. But you and I spell done that, but astir radical dunno astir that yet.
[00:07:10] Troy Cross: Actually, I deliberation idiosyncratic really did successful port, successful the Portland airdrome wherever I live, idiosyncratic did portion down, going done TSA successful immoderate benignant of protestation made section news.
[00:07:19] Q: So honestly,
I emotion it. Troy, determination was thing that you said though, that I deliberation feeds into what my content astir a batch of this atomic worldly is. And it's the thought that, you know, radical of a definite age, U N P nary offense, dissimilar maine grew up successful the acold warfare era, proceeding astir it and, and similar truly feeling this fearfulness astir a imaginable atomic war.
You guys besides were live during Treno. I mean, P was an aged antheral past just, you could spot however agelong helium is now. But similar these are not events that needfully consciousness precise adjacent to me. Like. Hate maine each you privation for saying it similar this, but it didn't truly click successful my caput until I was overmuch older. That Cher noble was not precise acold removed from erstwhile I was born.
And I wonderment if portion of this hesitation to follow oregon spell and research atomic vigor is due to the fact that the leadership, the radical who tin marque those decisions were successful information live during that clip and biased to a constituent of fearfulness astir alternatively than. Through a viewpoint of accidental oregon prosperity that this caller exertion could provide.
How overmuch of that bash you bargain oregon americium I conscionable inactive a small precocious from the weekend?
[00:08:29] Troy Cross: I mean, archetypal of all, Pete doesn't look fractional my age, but yeah, I did unrecorded done those things and I retrieve the Berlin partition coming down and my parent grew up successful Washington DC. And erstwhile she was a small girl, similar her large fearfulness was the atomic war, you know, that was the epoch of Dr.
Strange emotion and the Rand Institute. And I deliberation of people that shaped us, but connected atomic safety, it's much than conscionable the acold war. Shaping america it's connected the 1 hand, the proliferation of, of atomic weapons. I mean, I, I, I deliberation it is simply a concern. Nuclear weapons are decidedly a concern. I, I wouldn't accidental I'm acrophobic astir that astatine all.
In information what's weird is that we were a batch safer successful the acold war, I think, than we are present connected the atomic Warfront due to the fact that we just, it was conscionable successful the hands of 2 superpowers, some of whom had a batch to lose. Whereas present it's successful the hands of a batch of rogue actors and it's a small little secure, but connected the, connected the portion of atomic energy, determination was of course, a immense question that benignant of coincided with the acold warfare that wasn't truthful overmuch about.
It wasn't truthful overmuch astir geopolitics arsenic it was astir meltdowns, similar Cher, noble the works successful New York, It was these small accidents and it was besides astir what bash we bash with FCI worldly spent worldly and not having a truly bully spot to store it and having a agelong fractional life. And of people you bash retrieve Fukushima.
I anticipation you know, that that's an ongoing disaster. I made, I made immoderate wealth connected that successful the prediction markets. I made bully wealth connected Fukushima. Oh yeah. I'm detail. Tell america however good it was connected this prediction marketplace successful Ireland, which has present been closed. And you could stake connected fundamentally the scope of the disaster.
Like however large was it and however much, however ample would the catastrophe country beryllium declared and astatine what level. I made 2 calculations. First of all, I cipher the authorities was lying and it was worse than it was. And that was true. And past my 2nd calculation was conscionable looking astatine the rings of devastation imaginable that immoderate of those larger rings, geographically encompassed ample colonisation centers.
And I knew they would not evacuate those colonisation centers. Like I conscionable knew it similar fundamentally nary substance what, due to the fact that it would conscionable beryllium excessively overmuch of a paint. So I stake that this, that the ellipse would beryllium bigger than they were initially saying and smaller than these outlying ones. And I bet, similar I bought up the full market.
I mean, it's not a large market, truthful I conscionable similar bought up each disposable trade. And you know, I felt weird astir profiting connected atomic disaster, information, you know, the marketplace is determination to get information. I wanted to get radical accusation . Absolutely. Yeah. That was pre Bitcoin by the way, I think, I think, no, I can't remember.
No. When was Fukushima? What was I already trading Bitcoin? Yeah, possibly I was okay. All right, whatever
[00:11:18] Q: Fukishima was 2011, but by the way, nary of this is fiscal advice.
[00:11:22] Troy Cross: None of this is fiscal advice. Do not stake connected anyway, the tract is unopen down. You know, it's similar a gambling thing, similar thing centralized, right?
It's it's escaped marketplace and it gets gonna get unopen down. So, but, but anyway, backmost to the question, similar I deliberation these disasters and the occupation of agelong word storage, you know, it galvanized a question that went unneurotic with the nary nukes question for war. And that was like, not my procreation really, but similar my parents' generation, they weren't truly portion of that.
But, you know, that was the nary nukes thing. And what's weird is to spot however the agelong process connected that movement. And we've got overmuch amended information successful reactors present successful their design, successful their cardinal design, but besides successful their placement successful their regulation, similar fundamentally we person addressed the information problems successful nuclears by acold the safest signifier of powerfulness accumulation now, and that's hard to stomach, but it's true.
You know, conscionable similar the aerial pollution. A ember works kills much than atomic ever, ever has by causing lung issues and stuff. So I, I deliberation atomic and, and, and of course, I mean, this point's been made each implicit Bitcoin, Twitter and each implicit energy, Twitter, but fundamentally decommissioning atomic fleets astir the satellite is what is keeping ember plants online.
And for Bitcoin's critics who constituent astatine Bitcoin, which is little than a cardinal dollars a period successful full revenue. And, you know, astir apt you know, $200 a period in, in, successful vigor walk to fossil fuels. If that similar maximum, possibly a 100 cardinal dollars a period is the full planetary walk connected fossil substance vigor worldwide to accidental ember plants are staying unfastened due to the fact that of Bitcoin.
Meanwhile, we are shutting down atomic plants. That nutrient you know, orders of magnitude, much powerfulness astir the world, you know, it's happening similar that New York authorities legislation, there's a works being closed down successful New York astatine the aforesaid clip that that authorities is being forwarded and discussed.
There's a works successful Michigan that conscionable got unopen down. There's a state works crossed the thoroughfare that is of people taking up the slack. So like, fundamentally shutting down the atomic fleet is eating up each of the gains that are being made by adding greenish vigor and keeping fossil fuels astir erstwhile they different wouldn't be, atomic has astonishing features arsenic a shaper of powerfulness has this unthinkable capableness factor.
It has a precise tiny footprint, dissimilar solar, you know, it's, it's fantastic. It, it overruns its budgets each implicit the place. It's costly close now. It's centralized, it's regulated but it is harmless and it's dependable and it, it it's you know, and it's carbon. It's, it's not considered renewable due to the fact that it uses uranium, but it's sustainable.
It it's, it's a c escaped accumulation of, of energy. So like, it, it, the, it's astir similar the crippled with, with Bitcoin. It's similar a distraction game. Like everybody look present astatine 0.001, 2% of planetary energy. Meanwhile, disregard the information that we are shuttering the, the astir innovative and guardant looking and decarbonizing signifier of vigor accumulation that humanity has ever had.
It. It's astir similar a, you know, I get conspiratorial astatine this point, similar who's down this, like, you know, who's down this due to the fact that it seems conscionable excessively irrational for it to beryllium organic, but then, you know, radical are irrational. No, I mean,
[00:14:34] Q: I, I could not hold with you more. It is truthful disheartening to, to person truthful galore radical believing the lies that are perpetually repeated.
About atomic vigor and honestly, truthful galore different things, but specifically astir atomic vigor and its effects connected the situation and what it does for humanity. I mean, it's conscionable prevarication aft lie, aft prevarication and the argumentation decisions that are made bespeak those lies. It, it's
[00:15:05] Troy Cross: a really, truly instructive happening for Bitcoiners due to the fact that we're the anti-nuclear run of misinformation and the anti Bitcoin run carnivore a batch of resemblance, but it happened a agelong clip agone with nuclear.
So we're looking into our ain future. When we spot the present, you know, we look astatine the president of nuclear, that's our future. Like where, where, wherever are these close now? Bitcoiners are similar the atomic advocates of. Seventies and eighties and, you know, look astatine the agelong process of that misinformation, these a fewer cardinal players, right, who person created the communicative astir Bitcoin fashioned it and fed it to the media who lapped it up into politicians who besides lapped it up, you know, Alex Dre, who I'm gonna, I'm going to a league connected Wednesday.
He's gonna beryllium the keynote talker determination created this excavation economist, the the cardinal slope worker for the Netherlands created the site, excavation economist, primitively doge, economist, and dispersed conscionable a, an unthinkable heap of FUD astir Bitcoin. Like that person, Camila Mora prof astatine assemblage of Hawaii wrote.
Or didn't truly write, enactment his sanction connected a insubstantial that is repeated everyplace that says Bitcoin unsocial is gonna vigor the globe much than 2 degrees. Like these 2 radical and a fewer different cardinal players astatine the very, precise opening of Bitcoin's beingness shaped a communicative that is not based successful fact, but which volition canine america for decades.
And it's it's due to the fact that it's due to the fact that determination wasn't a antagonistic communicative that caught connected accelerated enough. And it's due to the fact that it became an individuality feature, right. Rather than conscionable like, oh, however does this marque caller exertion work? Like the energy oregon the internet? Let's fig it out. How it could beryllium utilized to, to further quality ends.
It was what benignant of a idiosyncratic americium I am. I, I cognize it's so, you know, americium I americium like, you cognize what I mean? And truthful that's the aforesaid with nuclear. It's similar erstwhile you're a, a nos idiosyncratic and you've got, t-shirts saying that and you've protested it, however casual is it gonna beryllium to alteration your mind? Very precise freaking hard, which is wherefore we conscionable person to hold for the hippies to dice for that communicative to die.
We're not gonna alteration their minds. Right. So we gotta wait, we gotta enactment connected the adjacent generation. And truthful those 2 successful particular, but others are, you know, Elizabeth Warren, they are trying to bash the aforesaid happening for Bitcoin, cement a communicative and, and intertwine it with an individuality truthful that it cannot beryllium shed astatine the symptom of, at, astatine the outgo of your own, your ain ego.
That's admitting that you're, I, you, you, aren't the idiosyncratic that you accidental oregon you're 1 of those atrocious people, truthful we person to halt it earlier it gets to that phase, due to the fact that we're conscionable gonna beryllium dealing with this FUD, like, similar for decades.
[00:17:41] P: Yeah,
man, I, I person said akin things in, successful a far, acold little eloquent mode that similar the mode I thought astir it is erstwhile you're talking about, erstwhile you're talking with radical astir environmentalism specifically astir ESG narratives, 1 of the, 1 of the experiences that I've had personally is that it is truthful hard to.
To person a speech based successful information oregon reason, due to the fact that arsenic you say, people's identities are wrapped up successful this thought and I'd ne'er thought astir the idea, oregon I had ne'er thought astir it from the position of radical trying to found that individuality astir Bitcoin. And surely not astir the thought of atomic energy, but you're perfectly right.
That's precisely the, the onslaught vector
against it.
[00:18:24] Troy Cross: And, and, and erstwhile I speech to radical and I'm not precise bully astatine this, nary 1 is, you know, but you of person to enactment with the individuality you already have. , you know, you're not gonna beryllium capable to archer radical similar you individuality sucks, who you are sucks, beryllium a antithetic benignant of person.
It doesn't enactment that way. People don't enactment that way. So you person to effort to get wrong their. Figure retired what they worth and how, you know, Bitcoin tin link with what they already worth and who they truly are. The deeper values, like, okay, you've got the t-shirt that says nary nukes, but what are you truly acrophobic of?
You're truly acrophobic of, you know, thermonuclear warfare you know, meltdowns astatine plants. And what you're, what you're acrophobic of is simply a benignant of techno pessimistic imaginativeness of the future. An I radiated scenery a hellscape postapocalyptic, that's what you're acrophobic of. So if I tin past amusement you that you are really creating that hellscape, that the exertion has precocious successful the past decades, but you.
Where you're you are keeping ember plants alive, and those ember plants really person radiation and admit radiation much of it than escapes atomic plants famously. Right. So bash bananas. A batch of things person radiation, if I could amusement you that, that you're creating a satellite that is worse than the 1 than the 1 that you're trying to forestall with your actions and bash it with empathy, you know, maybe, possibly we get in, but similar I said, the hippies person to die, you know, I accidental this with affection.
I mean, I met Reed college. It's fundamentally similar F you cognize what I mean? It was similar hippy central, I think, 30 years ago. Oh my God.
[00:20:01] P: Yeah. It's yeah. So I'd emotion to perceive much your thoughts astir however you combat those narratives. And I conjecture besides taking a measurement backmost benignant of, what is your presumption connected benignant of ESG narratives successful Bitcoin and however we can.
[00:20:18] Q: Can I, I'm gonna chopped you disconnected P origin I, I, I privation to spell down the ESG rabbit hole, but I privation to spell a antithetic mode due to the fact that Troy, what you said, I hold with, however, past you look astatine thing similar ESG, wherever astatine its tribunal is fundamentally conscionable telling people, Hey, what, what you've done for each these years is atrocious and anserine and you person to alteration it.
And this is what you person to bash otherwise going forward. And for immoderate reason, a batch of radical bought into this narrative. A batch of it was pulling connected the heartstring of uncovering what these radical valued. Like, Hey, your kid is astir apt not gonna person the aforesaid satellite that you have. Like that was similar the advertisement moving erstwhile I was a child, someway that is inactive the advertisement and I'm kids.
My property are present having children now. So did it really enactment oregon not remains to beryllium seen, but wherefore was ESG specified an effectual mode of changing people's minds astir their depletion happens to what they were doing and changing it into the mess. See now.
[00:21:19] Troy Cross: Yeah. It's absorbing to usage the connection ESG due to the fact that it's a reasonably caller acronym.
You know, radical didn't usage the connection ESG adjacent 5 years ago. I'd ne'er heard that phrase. And it truly came retired of the investing world. ESG stands for environmental, societal and governance, and those are benignant of 3 criteria for ethical investing. But I would accidental ESG grew retired of the ethical investing Mo movement.
And past with radical trying to benignant of interruption down what ethical investing meant. So, you know, there's environmentalism arsenic a movement, which is, I deliberation of it simply arsenic having a debased clip preference. I deliberation of the bosom of environmentalism arsenic conscionable caring about, similar you said, your kids, I, I don't deliberation that's a Fiat thing.
I deliberation that's a quality thing. Thinking astir Thinking astir utilizing resources and gathering a satellite that wherever our grandkids are amended disconnected than we are. And you know, that means not conscionable similar dumping contamination everywhere, for instance. And it, it means mostly gathering a amended world. I deliberation it it's conscionable identical with having a, a, a load clip preference, letting your grandkids happiness beryllium arsenic important to you arsenic your happiness.
If we had that. And if Bitcoin tin execute that, past environmentalism wins. That conscionable is environmentalism successful my book. Now what precisely that consists of thing different. Now, what happened with ESG is you know, radical had this thought like, Hey, I'm conscionable throwing wealth into the market. And this, this is much Fiat thinking, right?
What happened was you cannot prevention anymore without investing. I think, you know, you spell backmost a 100 years ago. We didn't person a, a blase banal market. You, you, you spell different 20 years, we commencement to get a blase banal market, but not everybody participates successful it. It's and it's speculative, but sometime successful the eighties oregon whatever, everybody's status gets hooked up into investments.
Everybody's investing each the clip and it's successful a mode it's 1971, right? We commencement printing wealth everywhere. You cannot prevention in, successful money. Money is not a savings conveyance anymore. Everybody knows that you person to gamble successful the marketplace successful bid to adjacent stay, adjacent with inflation, you can't bash that with currency anymore.
So everybody starts giving their wealth to, to the market. And past we besides get the emergence of these scale funds alternatively than picking retired stocks oregon having your broker prime retired stocks. You conscionable invested an index, you conscionable brought bargain the full wide market, whether it's the Vanguard full marketplace money oregon whether it's conscionable the S and P 500.
So present your savings vehicle, every, each day, a mediate people Americans, their status conveyance and their savings vehicle, we've each go investors. We've each go speculators due to the fact that the dollar has forced america to bash that. And present radical commencement reasoning like, hold a minute, what americium I benignant of backing with my savings portion I'm funding, fundamentally the full system however, these money managers determine to bash it.
And that depends on, you know, what goes into the scale that I'm investing in. Let's accidental it's each gonna beryllium decided by the centralized operators. Maybe that worldly doesn't really bespeak my values alternatively than maine investing successful accidental my household business, my town, people, I cognize onshore that I cognize about.
I'm abruptly investing successful this precise detached mode into conscionable the broader system successful ways that definite cardinal planners fundamentally whoever's moving these indexes and funds, whether that's BlackRock oregon fidelity oregon whether it's you know, the NASDAQ deciding who's listed those radical are determining wherever my wealth goes.
So I deliberation this is simply a precise non Fiat thought underneath alleged ESG, which is like, I wanna determine however my wealth gets invested and I wanna marque definite it reflects who I americium and my imaginativeness of the future. I deliberation that is just. I don't deliberation that if that successful immoderate mode arsenic Fiat thinking, I don't deliberation of that successful immoderate mode arsenic flawed thinking.
I deliberation it's, it's escaped market. That is simply a escaped marketplace wherever radical privation amended power of their cap, their ain capital. It's the superior they worked hard for and they wanna power it. So that's the bully existent underlying, you know, ESG. It's like, you privation my money? Tell maine what you're doing. And whether it aligns with my values.
Now the games statesman erstwhile we person that wide virtuous underpinning firms are like, oh, we tin monetize that. Like you privation accusation astir companies truthful that you tin put successful ways that are concordant with your ain values. We volition merchantability you a product. And our merchandise volition fundamentally measurement however good companies are doing connected metrics of worth that we establish.
Then we volition fertile about, we volition fertile those for you and we'll enactment funds unneurotic that conscionable bundle them and we'll determine we'll, we'll fundamentally bash the hard enactment for you. And past you tin conscionable travel on and spot ESG money and enactment your wealth there. So that's where, that's wherever the fraud begins. I mean, ESG is like, similar afloat of fraud and misrepresentation and conscionable anserine accounting.
As, you know, Elon Musk constituent pointed retired erstwhile Exxon is an ESG institution and Tesla is not, you know, the full happening is simply a joke. What happened fundamentally is ESG became bullshit metrics. Like the remainder of the satellite we unrecorded in. And past people, companies similar give wings of medication and bureaucrats and mediate managers to similar maximizing those metrics, those ESG metrics.
In, successful ways that volition bump them up assorted scales. And that becomes a obstruction to introduction for tiny companies. It becomes emote astir large companies. It becomes 1 much benignant of similar feather successful the peacock process wherever you're signaling fittingness by doing each this bullshit that doesn't truly adhd immoderate value.
It, truthful I, I deliberation the strategy of ESG is an investing system. It is earnestly corrupt and fucked up now. And possibly I tin nexus immoderate sources connected that afterwards. You know, the caput ESG feline from BlackRock wrote an amazing, monolithic exposure successful mean astir what it was similar to beryllium the ESG feline astatine BlackRock and however overmuch bullshit it is and however it accomplishes nothing.
And I tin simply guardant that onto you, but determination are many, galore specified critiques. And truthful successful short, if I tin measurement backmost I deliberation the underlying impulse for ESG is noble. It is escaped market. It is bottommost up. It is radical wanting to power their superior successful way, alternatively than springiness it to different radical who put it successful ways that bash not lucifer their ain desires and values.
And I can't ideate anybody warring that unless you truly privation opacity and you privation cardinal central control. But past ESG is arsenic a merchandise is, is bullshit and fraud that has designed that is designed to portion radical from their wealth and fundamentally greenwash worldly that pays to beryllium greenwashed. And truthful that I Don deliberation is horribly destructive and, and what, what I, what I don't similar that sometimes Bitcoiners bash immoderate Bitcoiners bash is conscionable usage this word, the ESG narrative, erstwhile it, for me, it covers some of those things, some the impulse to, you know, walk your wealth arsenic UC fit's your freaking money.
And. Also these games connected partition street, which past besides of people are looping successful Washington. It's not conscionable partition street, but it's Washington too. Now that the SCC is requiring ESG reporting, they're going to find the metrics and values the S C yet it's gonna beryllium the SCC successful BlackRock, and past there's gonna beryllium similar taxation stuff.
That's gonna beryllium tied into this. I cognize it's so, and uh, you know, so, truthful it's, I reason each of that. I reason each of the apical down impositions of of metrics connected the economy. I deliberation that is the quickest mode to termination an system and stifle innovation, you know, is to come, is to person a clump of bureaucrats successful DC.
Come up with arbitrary metrics of value, wherever we each person antithetic values, you know, ESG is gonna beryllium antithetic for each of us. And they're gonna travel up with bullshit metrics that bespeak 1 acceptable of values successful which are gameable and past necktie successful a clump of different bureaucracy with it connected the taxation and reporting front, and past reward radical for maxing that out.
I mean, I spot catastrophe lying successful that direction, but I bash privation radical to beryllium capable to put successful the mode that they spot fit. And that's a noble impulse and you know, I, I, I deliberation I, I, I would similar to further that extremity for radical if I can. Yeah,
[00:29:53] P: absolutely. I conjecture 1 happening that's absorbing to maine is the, arsenic you, I deliberation what you're saying is ESG is conscionable 1 spirit of a thing.
The, the, that it's 1 spirit of a happening that you could attraction astir erstwhile you're investing your money. And I conjecture I'm funny why. There's the attachment to that circumstantial term, due to the fact that it feels similar it's been it's I perceive what you're saying. It feels similar it's been wholly co-opted astatine this point, right?
It, it, it, it stood for thing tenable and noble, which is similar escaped markets. You should beryllium capable to bash immoderate the fuck you privation with your money. And it has present been turned into this, this, like, it's similar that you know, successful hide which alien movie it was, but 1 of the past 1 with Ney Weaver, wherever she goes into the country and there's each the clones, you know, and she it's like, termination maine and it's conscionable similar horrible Cronenberg monster.
So like, what is the attachment to the word ESG specifically for
[00:30:43] Troy Cross: you? If determination is? Yeah, I mean, I hatred the term. I don't similar the word astatine all. You know, I, I, I deliberation wherever it starts is like, we had problems that we place with corporations and firm fundamentally concern ethics. So we person externalities that are not internalized successful price.
Those are failures of regulation, basically. We person those externalities tin be. Harms to a radical of radical oregon they tin beryllium benefits. Externalities tin beryllium positive. And truthful they, those tin beryllium biology oregon they tin beryllium successful presumption of what you're doing for, for nine oregon they tin beryllium successful presumption of firm governance.
There's a batch of attraction successful the 2 thousands to fundamentally failures of firm corporate governance structures, wherever insiders were enriched astatine the disbursal of shareholders. And truthful you tin spot radical saying like, look, what are the ethical failings of business? They're environmental, they're social, they're successful governance.
So what if we travel up with a money that alternatively than trying to hole those failures done regularisation allows america to hole those failures done people, putting their wealth wherever their rima is putting their money, wherever their values is. So that's however it happens. But arsenic soon arsenic you get farther than that, you say, okay, what benignant of firm governance operation is ethical?
What bash you mean social? Uh, What bash you mean environmental. Then it's wholly up for grabs and then, and controversial. And I've talked to radical who are successful partition thoroughfare astir this, and, and they're saying, you know, similar there's nary statement astir what these things are, nary astatine all. And so, and it's ever gonna beryllium antithetic for each person.
Exactly. So there's, there's truly nary shortcut to doing your ain owed diligence oregon uncovering what's going to happen. What I foretell is going to hap is that you're going to have, due to the fact that the state has fractured socially and politically religiously. I mean, it's, we are connected the verge of similar immoderate benignant of societal civilian war.
And truthful you're going to person niche funds that bespeak the values of radical successful the niche. And here's, what's happened with ESG. We've taken a definite niche of civilization and we've made that we've called that ESG. But truly it's similar 1 spirit of ESG that reflects 1 taste viewpoint. This is why, I conjecture I heard past week, there's similar an anti ESG money that similar fundamentally takes the, the, the stocks astatine the, that bash worse connected the ESG metrics.
And you tin put successful those 2 and that's like, measurement one. But measurement 2 is, you know, your authorities are gonna beryllium aligned with your investments and you'll travel up with a money that conscionable services those investments successful a way, what we person is similar we had the illusion that partition thoroughfare and authorities were independent.
It's similar Reed assemblage has this similar de declaration of governmental neutrality. So we person a, we person a 800 cardinal endowment, thing similar that. And we assertion to not beryllium governmental astir however we put that fund. But if you deliberation astir a spot similar Reed that is hyper political, similar however agelong volition that governmental neutrality truly clasp up, fixed the hyper governmental quality of.
Constituents of the institution. Right. And likewise, if you look astatine thing similar Liberty assemblage oregon thing connected the right, connected the right, however agelong are they gonna support investing successful similar woke companies that, you know, spell wholly contrary to their close helping values. So you're gonna spot similar a close helping benignant of concern money popular up that serves the Hillsdale colleges and the Liberty universities.
And you're gonna spot near helping erstwhile popular up and, and that's fine. That's escaped market, but erstwhile you telephone 1 of them ESG, and past you intertwine it with policy, that's conscionable not gonna past due to the fact that fractional the colonisation volition disagree. That that's what Accords with their values. They'll conscionable say, that's what Accords with your values.
And past it'll each melt down. Said.
[00:34:31] Q: So. I privation to, I privation to support going down this rabbit spread and Troy, if you don't privation to, you're wholly you're well, wrong your rights, cursing is large and you tin archer maine to fuck close off. Like ESG to your point. Like, I truly started paying attraction to it successful 2020 erstwhile I was starting to put full-time and connected 1 of the publications I followed, they would nonstop retired a play study of ESG companies.
How overmuch did I don't wanna say? Like COVID necessarily, but the information that during COVID radical were astatine home, determination was a large influx of traders. You tin spot it based connected the measurement of trades that was happening astatine 2020 versus what's happening today, oregon adjacent conscionable successful 2021. That successful fact, the traders were acold much progressive ESG fundamentally was being shoved down people's throats to everyone's constituent here.
And this is my slightest favourite portion astir ESG is the G is governance. And yet immoderate institution can, if they disregard environmental, if they disregard social. We're governing the close way. Like Trump, you asked america to archer you if we're doing it close oregon wrong. We're doing it right. You spot us. Cool. So we're ESG affirmative societal it's arsenic elemental as, oh, we hired caput of diversity.
It's the lone idiosyncratic of colour successful our full concern whatsoever. And she really makes much than, oregon she makes little than each different enforcement astatine her level. But Hey, we checked that societal box. I'm virtually calling retired my erstwhile leader paradigm who did precisely that laid disconnected each azygous idiosyncratic of colour and past hired a diverseness specializer arsenic their S for ESG.
Oh my God. Like wherefore bash things similar societal and governance person to get clumped into portion I bash judge we request to instrumentality attraction of our planet. We should look for ways to beryllium much efficient. Everything that we're doing. That's not to accidental inefficiencies shouldn't exist, but we should strive to beryllium better. So wherefore the fuck are we clumping successful these different 2 things that person thing to bash with biology and however damaging is it to, I deliberation conscionable the thought oregon communicative of uncovering businesslike vigor sources nether the scenery of
ESG?
[00:36:37] Troy Cross: Yeah, my, my reply is archetypal of all, that's a large illustration of the, the, the metrics being gameable. And I, I person a, my occupation goes much broadly of, I deliberation we are wholly taken with metrics and metrics are ever gameable successful my, successful my book. They tin beryllium utile astatine times, but I deliberation benignant of arsenic a middle, arsenic a absorption philosophy, we're conscionable taken with metrics and we're gonna each endure for that.
But you know, I, I, my reasoning connected this is the idiosyncratic I was reasoning of before, who was astatine BlackRock is Terre fancy, and it's shaped by Terre fan's writings. It, it, the crushed wherefore ESGs being pushed connected your pharynx close present is wealth it's due to the fact that it's the fastest increasing conception successful finance.
It's it's due to the fact that the, the satellite of concern was like, okay, we did, like, we invented each these derivatives, what bash we bash now? We person this market. We're not serving precise well. We, we present products for them. And past we, we profit, similar we tin complaint a premium for the SG stuff. So, I deliberation that's, what's driving it.
It's simple. They did the marketplace research. And past of course, they're besides creating the marketplace with advertisement and past it becomes a thing. It becomes a thing, you know, like, are USG investing. It's fundamentally a societal microorganism that has caught connected and they assistance to make that virus, but they're besides riding it.
Everybody wants successful connected it. So it's similar when, you know, successful 2017, erstwhile and I conjecture it happened again, erstwhile radical started doing blockchain stuff, you conscionable enactment blockchain successful beforehand of the sanction of immoderate institution and abruptly the multiples conscionable similar explode. And it's the aforesaid close now. You conscionable enactment ESG adjacent to immoderate money and it conscionable draws capital.
So I, I, I person a crude and elemental mentation of what's going connected here. I don't deliberation it's a conspiracy, it's a convenient lucifer betwixt marketplace anticipation and a definite ideology. And it's like, okay, perfect. We tin exploit this and whip it up further. And that, that full happening grosses me. I person to say, and you know, your rubric is the SG and onslaught connected Bitcoin.
That taste nexus of apical down power dictating values, shaming radical into definite kinds of investments is an onslaught connected Bitcoin successful the consciousness that Bitcoin is bottommost up idiosyncratic choice. It's, it's, it's state money, right? So I, and, and besides they're gonna plan their metrics successful a mode that Bitcoin's gonna travel retired badly.
They're already doing that. I deliberation that's what the national authorities is doing close now. I deliberation that's what the achromatic location is doing close now. They're coming up with metrics for cryptocurrencies and they're making, they're going to travel up with metrics that measurement like, you know, vigor per transaction oregon whatever.
And they're going to plan those metrics successful a mode that Bitcoin sucks contempt it, you know, but contempt it maxing retired connected the societal and the governance and successful my view, adjacent connected the environment, And energy, contempt that they volition travel up with metrics that are anserine due to the fact that they don't recognize Bitcoin and intentionally designed precisely to, to, to marque it suck connected their metric.
And we'll effort to explicate otherwise, but it won't substance due to the fact that we're gonna beryllium successful beforehand of ESG boards astatine pension funds astatine sovereign wealthiness funds. And they're gonna say, yeah, and I say, this they're going to, I mean, this is already what it is. Bitcoin is not ESG friendly. We can't put successful that. How galore times person I heard radical speech to maine and say, I can't put successful Bitcoin due to the fact that it's not ESG.
Our steadfast can't interaction Bitcoin. We can't adjacent constitute emails astir Bitcoin internally due to the fact that it's not ESG friendly. I heard this from similar solar, a star developer, similar who wanted to commencement similar a, a, a achromatic op tract oregon a programme wrong the institution wherever they would sermon cryptocurrencies successful Bitcoin.
Somebody wrote backmost saying our institution cannot beryllium progressive successful Bitcoin successful immoderate mode due to the fact that of ES ESG concerns. Like adjacent this email, I'm going to delete it. Please don't email maine again. and like, that's the benignant of weird, that's the benignant of weird blowback we're gonna get. That's gonna beryllium institutionalized, shitty metrics.
so we ha we person to combat it. It's truthful infuriating
don't you emotion erstwhile radical who cognize perfectly thing astir exertion oregon conscionable the taxable astatine manus are the ones who get to determine what rules and ways to analyse the information of the taxable that they cognize thing about. But I think, ohio yeah, I mean that's bad, but I deliberation worse is erstwhile radical cognize capable to recognize what Bitcoin is.
Cause arsenic we're talking astir Bitcoin, and arsenic Troy said, they are intentionally crafting these metrics, specified a, successful specified a mode that they volition be. They volition anchor into the existing benignant of similar societal and motivation bullshit that radical person been forced fed. And past they benignant of person to accidental no, due to the fact that different you're a unspeakable idiosyncratic and your, your idiosyncratic
identity doesn't support.
It it's even, there's the individuality part. Yes. But it's, it's, it's it's worse due to the fact that the national authorities has present said, you know, you can't enactment connected immoderate cryptocurrency you own. So they've made that a policy. Oh my God. I know. So, truthful you know, the radical coming up with the, the ESG metrics for Bitcoin are guaranteed not to ain any.
And I don't, I don't cognize astir you guys, but erstwhile I owned Bitcoin is erstwhile I truly started studying hard due to the fact that tegument successful the crippled and abruptly similar your information is disconnected the charts. Like, americium I an idiot? Am I successful a cult? Is this stupid? Does it person a accidental you commencement similar the full crippled changes erstwhile you ain it.
And truthful for me, the, to person the full national authorities penning meant penning argumentation for. But guaranteed. None of the radical successful the authorities who ain it are doing that writing. I'm similar oh, I just, I'm conscionable bracing for the worst, you know, and I person to brace this cuz you know, this is each gloom and doom and I person to brace this with, I should say, I'm talking to radical in, successful companies each time successful manufacture and in, in, successful the manufacture spans, you know, the powerfulness industry, utilities, powerfulness generators, grid operators radical gathering connected Bitcoin and bundle radical gathering connected Bitcoin and you know, mining and landfills doing flare state mining.
And, and erstwhile I speech to radical crossed this industry, I mean, I americium truthful amazingly bullish connected Bitcoin's integration with the vigor aboriginal and its acceleration of a aboriginal that I privation my kids and grandkids to have. Bitcoin makes maine truly optimistic astir a taxable that I was precise pessimistic about, which is the aboriginal of the environment.
And truthful connected the 1 hand, I'm truly pessimistic astir the bullshit that is going to rainfall down connected america from the top, some from the apical of partition thoroughfare and the apical of Washington and the apical of Brussels astatine the ECB and I, and, and astatine the aforesaid time, I'm ace bullish connected Bitcoin itself, Bitcoin and energy.
It's conscionable a question of similar wherever and erstwhile and however these innovations happen, but the inducement operation for integrating Bitcoin with an. With a, a sustainable and plentiful and abundant vigor aboriginal that the inducement operation is conscionable excessively good. It cannot beryllium held backmost for precise agelong by cardinal authorities.
I wanna
[00:43:42] Q: possibly effort to unpack a small spot of this, our producer, Chris, passim a beauteous morganatic question. Although I deliberation we're assuming Senator loves holds Bitcoin. But similar however overmuch of an inhibitor is this argumentation that you can't clasp a cryptocurrency that you're moving on, connected thing similar lava's measure
Lama is bill.
[00:44:02] Troy Cross: Like what? Lumus does clasp Bitcoin and she's declared precisely however overmuch she holds and however she got it from her son. And she's told the full story. I deliberation she had 5 Bitcoin, but she's precocious purchased much if I remember. Right. So Lamas is a, a Bitcoin who hold, who huddles and. You know, I deliberation I, it doesn't impact her.
This regularisation is for the Biden administration. It's an enforcement subdivision restriction, right? So it's, it's, the Biden has taken a full of authorities attack and I'm pessimistic, but I shouldn't beryllium excessively pessimistic. Look, determination are a batch of astute radical successful government. We astatine the Bitcoin argumentation Institute wherever I work, you know, we wrote our effect responses to their telephone for for inform, for information, their petition for accusation arsenic a portion of the enforcement order.
And you know, different Bitcoiners did too. We mightiness get done to immoderate of them. We person the information connected our side. We person bully arguments connected our broadside and, and there's immoderate dedicated and agleam radical moving successful government. And truthful I, I, I shouldn't beryllium ace pessimistic , but it's conscionable It's besides astir wherever the wealth is, where, wherever is wealth flowing successful into the strategy and who gets an assemblage who gets an assemblage with the Biden administration?
Where, what meetings I person seen. It's like, you know, you'll person 8 representatives from the crypto industry. None of them are Bitcoin companies. Every 1 of them is a, is simply a crap going company. And why, wherefore is that? Because they are each companies due to the fact that their, their tokens and chains are not protocols and commodities.
They are disguised securities, but that besides means that they person organized centralized practice with similar immoderate different similar immoderate different industry. Right. Whereas Bitcoin, we're similar a decentralized mob. And though determination are companies that physique connected Bitcoin, determination is nary CEO of Bitcoin. Although, you know, lawmakers person asked to talk with that person, the CEO of Bitcoin, right.
We don't person one. I mean, I, I, I, I person to temper my pessimism. There are agleam radical there. It's conscionable that the strategy is not acceptable up to deliberation intelligibly astir a decentralized protocol and an plus that lives connected that protocol. It is acceptable up to perceive industries and erstwhile it comes to that, it's astonishing that, you know, what, what, what is immoderate 40, immoderate percent of each worth connected crypto assets doesn't truly person a spot astatine the array successful my view, in, successful these, successful these things.
And cipher owns it wrong the medication and we're guaranteed to that. So we're relying connected these bureaucrats to. Read cautiously what we constitute astatine DPI and, and different places and, and, and to be, beryllium astute and admit the arguments, but I'm, you know, it's hard to beryllium optimistic connected that front. The legislature is simply a wholly antithetic deal.
You know, Bitcoiners person done a bully occupation of reaching retired to legislators and starting to amended them and starting to physique relationships. We person a agelong mode to spell connected that front. But we are, we are catching up and clearly, yeah, we, erstwhile you perceive Ted Cruz speech astir Bitcoin, it's like, wow, this feline and Bitcoin and energy, I'm not a Ted Cruz instrumentality successful general, but erstwhile I heard him talking astir Bitcoin and energy, I was like, ohio my God, he's amazing.
He gets it. He gets it arsenic good arsenic anyone. This is phenomenal. So I, I person overmuch much anticipation astir the legislative subdivision than I bash the enforcement branch.
I similar that. I wanna unpack this though, due to the fact that I person this debate. I was genuinely having this statement earlier you adjacent came connected astir the validity of immoderate of these politicians who marque claims and statements astir Bitcoin.
I deliberation the cleanable illustration of this is Eric Adams comes retired and says, portion he's moving for politician of New York, I'll instrumentality my archetypal paycheck successful Bitcoin, not adjacent a week later, really I'm gonna divided it betwixt Bitcoin and Ethereum. And past accelerated guardant to the authorities that we saw successful New York authorities walk and idiosyncratic who's claimed to beryllium pro Bitcoin, who claimed to beryllium pro crypto was awfully quiet.
I'm not shy astir saying this. I deliberation Ted Cruz is the scum of the earth. I deliberation helium is precise rapidly conscionable latched onto the adjacent thing. That'll support him successful an bureau for 1 much term. And he'll conscionable arsenic rapidly instrumentality the different broadside of the statement if it serves his benefit. So my question is wherefore bash we adjacent attraction astir politicians getting progressive successful Bitcoin?
In mentation similar China, Bann Bitcoin mining, trying to prohibition transacting of Bitcoin. There's inactive transactions of Bitcoin happening successful China of each places. Do we genuinely judge that Bitcoin would conscionable halt to beryllium successful America? Let unsocial the satellite if no, unopen up Troy's opinion. I mean, nary one's saying that Troy's mute him.
Someone mute him. Jesus, Troy. I'm kidding. Go ahead, Pete. No, spell ahead. I was gonna accidental like, like, no, one's adjacent suggesting that cue it's it's I deliberation it's, this is the incorrect term, but similar astir similar a mendacious dichotomy, right? It's not astir like, yes, Bitcoin, arsenic Troy said earlier, the, and I, I said truthful galore times successful the amusement that.
The happening that's truthful compelling astir Bitcoin is the inducement structures that are successful place, right? It, the things that are the champion for the network, oregon atrocious for the idiosyncratic are besides highly supportive of the larger web astir of the time. And truthful you can't suppress thing that has incentives that are that effective.
There will, to your point, determination volition ever beryllium benignant of radical connected the margins who are becoming larger and larger you know, and past yet go the majority. And I just, but, but having said that the, you know, we are United States citizens, and if the United States comes down against Bitcoin in, successful a important way, that volition marque our lives acold much difficult.
Right. You don't person to similar prohibition Bitcoin if you conscionable make crazy, is it a random example, similar taxation structures astir it, right. Or, oregon laws astir it. And truthful it's important due to the fact that it truly is this crippled changing exertion and. We wanna, we wanna beryllium driving guardant towards this hyper Bitcoin crystal satellite arsenic rapidly arsenic possible.
Not, you know, mire successful the, successful the mud.
That'd beryllium my thought try. Yeah. That's that's truly good said. And I, of people TikTok adjacent artifact and you know, China, what's absorbing astir it is Cambridge is present showing 20% of each complaint is successful China. I mean, 20% of each hash complaint and it's amerciable to excavation determination that's phenomenal however overmuch wealth is, is held successful China successful Bitcoin and is being utilized to circumvent superior controls.
I would conjecture a lot. I, I, it's conscionable astonishing and yes, Bitcoin will, volition survive, but I really deliberation that wherefore we are truthful acold down the ball, a batch of it has to bash with the cognition that authorities doesn't matter. And we'll conscionable bash our thing. That's wherefore we haven't enactment the vigor into communicating, educating and gathering relationships with lawmakers.
You know, it's due to the fact that we're like, ah, screw them. You know, we'll conscionable like, it's cipher. Punk's close code. And we'll, that's what we'll do. We'll physique an autarkic system. But erstwhile everybody's reasoning similar that, cipher talks to the lawmakers, but conjecture who is talking to the lawmakers shit, pointers, shit, pointers are each up in, up successful their offices and they get to rotation the narrative.
If you don't power your ain narrative, they do. Okay. Why bash we care? Just arsenic you said you know, I don't conscionable privation Bitcoin to succeed. I privation it to win present and present I, I don't, I don't privation it to like, yeah, there's a portion of me. That's like, you know, I went to the Oslo state forum this twelvemonth and I was benignant of like, yeah, let, fto Bitcoin turn from Nigeria, from the Central African Republic, from El Salvador, from Guatemala, from Panama, you know, fto it hap there.
And. And past fto determination beryllium a illness of this Fiat strategy successful a monolithic indebtedness bubble. And the weirdly these nonaligned states look arsenic planetary concern leaders successful El Salvador, you know, oregon whatever, similar El Salvador is the caller Singapore oregon whatever, you know, there's a portion of me. That's like, yeah, that would beryllium cool.
But I unrecorded present and I privation it to hap present and I privation it to hap fast. And I, I mean to deliberation astir it, Bitcoin is our bid for state money. It is our accidental to empower the many, alternatively than the few, our existent strategy empowers a fewer cardinal bankers, the 1% of the affluent radical in, successful positions to make, marque decisions astir money, get the reward it's tegument archer successful effect.
Okay. I'm not telling you anything. You don't cognize Bitcoin fixes this. But, but deliberation astir these alternate histories, the 1 wherever we really successful the next. Six years, amended radical astir Bitcoin, some making argumentation and successful the satellite of concern and radical astatine large, the citizenry who volition elite those politicians and we get them fired up and we get them to spot what escaped and, and neutral and just wealth could bash for them.
That's one, that's the 1 history, right, close present successful America. And the different past is wherever the crap corners person their accidental and they triumph the governmental conflict and they triumph the fiscal battle. And we con we get the rhetoric of freedom, but we get the world of continued fiscal servitude, wherever alternatively of the cardinal bankers, it's fatal and friends, you know, alternatively of the cardinal bankers, it's the VCs successful Silicon vale down Solana.
And you know, it's PO it is polygon and immoderate it, you cognize what I mean? I, and past we endure done that portion yet radical travel to see, oh, this is besides centralized and unfair. Oh, this is simply a Ponzi and possibly it collapses oregon possibly it gets captured by the state. And past we're like, oh, we're close backmost wherever we began.
Of course, Bitcoin is ticking on this full time. But arsenic a marginal subordinate astatine astir taking the marketplace headdress of gold, alternatively than serving arsenic a planetary monetary asset, a planetary reserve plus accessible to everyone successful which functions arsenic a savings instrumentality for everyone. Instead radical get fooled into this alternate world and we person decades to benignant it out.
I privation way 1 alternatively than way two. And truthful that means I person to enactment close present to, to bash my best, to bring that world about, I mean, I think, you know, the slogan of Bitcoin is inevitable to me. I don't similar the slogan. it's like, I agree. It's, it's, it's an excuse for laziness to me. It's. Who who is, what does it mean for Bitcoin to succeed?
It means each idiosyncratic makes idiosyncratic decisions to follow it. Okay. It's 1 by 1 idiosyncratic by idiosyncratic by idiosyncratic Bitcoin doesn't follow itself. It doesn't follow itself. We follow it. Right? So each 1 of these conversations we have, like, yeah. Ultimately Bitcoin's astir proviso and demand. It's worth is it's the constituent wherever proviso and request conscionable those curves transverse that's wherever terms is.
Okay. So Bitcoin's protocol covers the demand, the proviso side, it's, you know, 900 caller Bitcoin a time for the adjacent 2 years and past drops to 4 50 and truthful on. But the request broadside is quality psych. It's quality psychology. Now, of course, that science is informed by Bitcoin's principles. And Bitcoin has large principles that are charismatic to quality psychology, similar 21 cardinal hard cap.
That's charismatic to us. So it's not conscionable psychology. It's not, we're not an N we're not an NFT onshore here. Exactly wherever the worth is conscionable arbitrary. It's not arbitrary. It's grounded successful the properties of Bitcoin, but that grounding successful the properties of Bitcoin is mediated by the, the, the psychological, social, political, quality idiosyncratic lens done which we comprehend those properties, the properties bash not conscionable automatically pb to investment.
And it's up to each 1 of america to communi. Those, those properties to the, to the radical we love, you know, our friends and adjacent our enemies, Bitcoin is awesome. It's successful the structure. Like this is like, I'm blessed if my enemies follow Bitcoin. Right? Cause it's similar leads to adoption. So I, I, yeah, I deliberation Bitcoin volition support going to, it's not, and, and wherever it succeeds is each we tin power alternatively than whether it succeeds, but, you know, yeah.
The gait astatine which it succeeds and the alternate realities that are earlier america are wildly different. And I deliberation we prehend our ain agency. Bitcoin to maine is truly empowering arsenic an individual, the, the monetary strategy that I grew up successful and I've lived my full beingness in, does not springiness a crap astir me. I americium not 1 of its inputs.
I person nary accidental successful however it goes, whether it volition be, I mean, I person nary accidental successful it whatsoever. I americium stuck with it. I wage my taxes successful it. I get paid successful it. I bash not marque monetary argumentation decisions. You know, the, the Jerome Paul makes 'em, truthful Bitcoin is new. I get to tally my ain node. I get to excavation the mode I wanna mine.
And I tin person different radical to opt into this strategy successful immoderate way, oregon different allocate, a small bit, tally a node, you know, bash immoderate mining and I tin signifier the aboriginal of money. I tin signifier the aboriginal of finance. Like that is, that is incredibly empowering. Human beings person ne'er been capable to bash this earlier connected wide successful scale, astir quality beings person not had a portion of this determination to walk the priests, the precocious priests of wealth and whoever that was, whether it was bankers oregon earlier that were literal priests oregon Kings.
Those are the radical who made that decision. Now, everybody has that accidental that I, I consciousness similar that is, what's truthful large astir Bitcoin and I'm conscionable gonna instrumentality it and tally with it. You cognize what I mean? I'm gonna give my beingness to furthering, furthering this extremity that I want, due to the fact that I tin actually.
Potentially assistance it to hap faster and present alternatively than not arsenic much. Right. So I, okay. That was a very, precise agelong answer, but I support moving into this and I consciousness similar Bitcoiners are onto a truly heavy information erstwhile they accidental Bitcoin is inevitable. But I besides consciousness like, particularly successful a bull market, it's casual to footwear backmost erstwhile that's happening.
And you're conscionable like, oh, each I person to bash is huddle. Bitcoin volition conscionable instrumentality attraction of itself. It's inevitable. It's like, no, get disconnected your ass and speech to people. You know, deliberation it done you, you you're, you're present a national successful the Republic of wealth successful the Republic of Bitcoin. And you know, similar you person the rights and responsibilities of a national which means you get a ballot with your node.
You know, you determine which bundle to run. I, Andrew Bailey and I wrote a insubstantial in, successful we wrote a portion in, successful CoinDesk called caput your values. And it's conscionable fundamentally this full connection of like, Bitcoin gives you a mode to workout your powerfulness and. No, that's, what's awesome astir it, but besides similar measurement up and bash it.
[00:58:27] Q: So if you could conscionable sanction 1 idiosyncratic and I'll fto you cheat and perchance sanction much than one, but who is the eventual villain against Bitcoin? After each this conversation, we talked the ESG broadside of it. We talked the governmental side, we've talked the idiot crap corners, who successful your sentiment is genuinely the Thanos to Bitcoin's Avengers.
[00:58:50] Troy Cross: I'm gonna beryllium going to this league successful a fewer days with him, but I gotta accidental it's Alex Dre. I bash due to the fact that it's similar the root communicative of the FUD traces backmost to him. So he's not, erstwhile I look astatine what he's done, it is truthful impressive. He's idiosyncratic who, you know, helium had a hobby website called doge economist.
He started reasoning astir the c footprint of Bitcoin. He came up with these benignant of bullshit metrics. Publishing it, helium wrote a mates papers. He had a master's grade successful economics. He went to enactment for a cardinal bank. The adjacent happening I know, okay. His nonfiction influences Camilla Mora to constitute this portion that gets published successful nature.
Climate change. They mention Alex Dre, everybody cites Alex Dre. He's he's the, the world root successful each successful each insubstantial connected Bitcoin's emissions. He stepped into that abstraction and he's conscionable repeatedly dishonest, fundamentally dishonest astir however helium presents data. And it took maine a agelong clip to fig that out.
I'm an academic. I presume that radical are honest. I presume that erstwhile I amusement them inconsistencies, they'll beryllium like, oh, I'm atrocious astir that. I'll hole it. But that was not his response. It was conscionable similar treble down astatine every, astatine each stage. So he's liable for the celebrated infamous Energy per transaction, stat emissions per transaction stat.
He keeps talking astir the outgo of a transaction successful Bitcoin and dividing the full vigor usage of Bitcoin by the fig of transactions. And that stat has appeared everywhere. It makes a sense. Yeah, it makes zero consciousness astatine all. For a 1000 reasons I tin instrumentality it. But it lodged successful the fashionable imagination.
Two months of household vigor usage for 1 transaction successful Bitcoin. That's horrible. Who wants to bash that? I mean, who's similar your tyre electrical measure or, oregon 3 months oregon immoderate Elizabeth Warren is saying. Now it's ever varying, you know, and it's ridiculous due to the fact that of people you wage similar a dollar astatine astir for a, for a transaction close now.
And however tin you bargain 2 months worthy of powerfulness with a dollar? How is this adjacent happening? And that's because, you know, that's not transaction fees, that's the artifact reward. And we person furniture twos that are taking our volume. And truthful erstwhile it comes to furniture twos, for instance, here's a portion of dishonesty of Alex you know, the lightning network, helium mentions it, helium mentions it successful immoderate of his papers like, oh, helium really mentions like, oh, possibly the lightning web volition make someday.
And if it develops, past the, you know, usage per transaction, the c per transaction, the electrical usage per transaction volition spell down. Here we go, we get the lightning, it comes along. And what does helium say? He says, oh, determination aren't truly Bitcoin transactions. So I won't see them successful the stat. Also. We don't truly cognize however galore of them are happening.
And past helium is like, but what we should see is the further powerfulness that those lightning notes are consuming. Oh, for fuck sake. Right. So, truthful he, truthful he, helium wants to adhd that connected apical truthful you tin spot what I mean. It's similar this passim everything helium writes. Yeah. I mean, here's different illustration of dishonesty.
So helium writes this insubstantial again. He does the dividing by transaction. He writes this insubstantial connected e-waste successful Bitcoin and helium argues that we are filling, filling landfills with e-waste He, helium argues that a azygous Bitcoin transaction is equivalent to binning 2 iPhones. That's however it gets 2 iPhones worthy of e-waste for each azygous transaction successful Bitcoin.
Right. And you look into his insubstantial and I mean, Nick Carter did the, the top breakdown of this paper. It was awesome and hilarious, but helium estimates the beingness of a insignificant to beryllium similar 1.2, 9 years, thing similar that. 1.3 years. And you know, determination are S 9 S there's inactive 5% of the network, adjacent with the latest worldly coming out.
And astatine the clip helium wrote it, they were 20% of the network. Yeah. And S nines were astatine that point, you know, 5 and a fractional years old. So you could conscionable spell onto eBay and look up S 9 S and spot them each listed. You can't find thing for cheaper than you couldn't find thing for cheaper for 300 bucks astatine the clip helium was penning that paper.
So this happening is supposedly we've been done similar 3 beingness cycles of minors. and you could, you inactive person to wage truly bully wealth to, to get 1 of these S 9 S yeah. You know, conscionable wholly inexcusable. And he's got this very, precise fancy exemplary mathematical exemplary for determining the lifespan of minors.
He could person conscionable checked eBay. You know, different happening helium could person conscionable checked is the filings S sec filings of minors themselves, due to the fact that they person to constitute down their depreciation for minors. And if their minors were going retired of of, of profitability successful 1.3 years, they would've said that, right.
Because that a racism income for them, you know, and then, past the information is even, I deliberation adjacent when, similar with the S 9 S adjacent erstwhile their profitability goes negative, Which they're they're getting there, we're getting close. They're gonna slot it to this awesome relation that helium refuses to admit of absorbing excess energy.
Your sine doesn't person to beryllium profitable alternatively than throwing it into a landfill. You conscionable support it there. And erstwhile you enactment it down metre astatine a upwind farm, and erstwhile prices spell negative, you crook it connected and you crook it off. When prices spell backmost affirmative again, right? Or you usage it for discarded heat, oregon you conscionable hold for the Bitcoin terms to detonate again, due to the fact that it's fundamentally an enactment connected aboriginal Bitcoin.
So there's the, you know, the thought that you're ending up successful landfills connected the ground of this bullshit model. And past it was each large paper astir the freaking world. It was clip magazine. It was Newsweek. It was the magazines. It was the guardian 2 iPhones crook per transaction. EWAS blah, blah, blah.
And past it appears successful the missive from 70 biology organizations to Congress, past it appears successful Senator Elizabeth Warrens. Literature, past it appears successful similar Jared Hoffman's missive to the EPA. It's conscionable like, it, it, it goes, it, it spreads similar wildfire due to the fact that it started successful a adjacent reviewed journal.
yep. Right. So however is this guy? Not the ace villain. It's the eventual root of misinformation, which then, you know, the thought that, you know, the, the thought that Bitcoin bros are filling landfills with e-waste one, astatine 1 constituent radical measured the e-waste successful expansive pianos. I mean, determination was antithetic similar originative ways to measurement it.
When I, I, you know, erstwhile the existent percent of EWAS owed to Bitcoin, it's like, it's little than one, 10000th of e-waste little than 1 10,000. It's fundamentally thing due to the fact that astir each ASIC that's ever been designed, you know, it inactive makes consciousness to clasp . So it's, it's basically, it's hard to adjacent estimation however much.
But due to the fact that it's truthful low, but anyway, that's, that's Dre and he's connected a campaign. And present his buddies besides person an ESG benignant mode of measuring. They person a steadfast that measures you know, the, the biology footprint of assorted cryptocurrencies per transaction and overall, and helium is pushing that concern connected the European national and connected businesses successful Europe who privation to put successful ESG conscious ways.
So he's the idiosyncratic inventing these bullshit metrics that volition beryllium taken up by governments, banks, and concern firms. He's the 1 who's manus feeding it to them.
[01:05:38] P: All right. I'm changing the rubric to Alex. Dre is simply a liar and a hack.
[01:05:43] Troy Cross: Sounds good. Now, present I'm gonna person meal with him successful a fewer days.
[01:05:47] Q: I honestly, I wanna nonstop him ti Andrea, delight clip this conception and we're gonna spell up and DM that to Alex, conscionable truthful that that meal tin beryllium arsenic spicy arsenic possible.
Oh,
[01:05:58] P: God he's the keynote, right? He's the keynote talker astatine this conference. It it's a, it's successful Paris. It's a, it's connected the sustainable blockchain stuff. And you know, my connection is gonna beryllium impervious of enactment is invaluable and it's similar thing else. You know, can't reap, replicate it with impervious of stake, impervious of stake.
Doesn't bash the aforesaid thing. Doesn't connection the aforesaid security, but much importantly, it's conscionable a wholly antithetic exemplary that centralizes wealthiness implicit clip erstwhile you connection radical instrumentality connected wealth for having money, particularly if you're claiming deflationary status, what bash you deliberation that money's gonna beryllium like, oh, I accidental you person conscionable a cookware of wealth and the radical who person the astir of it close present get involvement connected it and it's deflationary.
So that cookware isn't growing. What does that organisation look similar implicit time? That it conscionable hyper concentrates wealthiness and power successful the hands of a fewer people. It's a wholly antithetic thing. So my connection is gonna be, you know, impervious of involvement does thing wholly antithetic than Bitcoin impervious of enactment is worthwhile.
But my connection is besides going to beryllium that Bitcoin mining is perchance almighty for catalyzing an abundant and greenish vigor future. And I'll effort to marque the case. I'll effort to explicate precisely however that's the case. If they fto maine talk.
Oh man. I anticipation they bash that. Sounds fucking awesome. Can you springiness america similar a small spot of a, a teaser without spoiling the large points?
Do you caput maybe. Figure this similar an audition. This is the casting
[01:07:25] Troy Cross: room. Sure, sure. P and I, and casting factors. 1, 1, 1 happening Bitcoin does is the fig 1 menace to the clime close now. The fig 1 warming state is methane, not CO2 C 4 is methane it traps vigor successful the atmosphere. 80 times arsenic overmuch arsenic CO2 implicit a 100 twelvemonth period.
And, you know, whatever, thing similar 30 times arsenic overmuch implicit a 20, 25 twelvemonth period. What americium I saying? I got that backwards. okay. It's many, galore multiples of CO2 successful its, successful its quality to trap heat. And it's liable for up to 1 3rd of each warming close now. And it's besides methane is besides vastly.
More than we person thought it was. So we support similar measuring methane with satellites and uncovering retired it's much severe. And fundamentally Bitcoin mining is the lone planetary bottommost up monetized incentivized mode to cleanable up methane. Bitcoin mins are parked adjacent to lipid Wells that person earthy state arsenic a byproduct and they tin pain those disconnected and crook them efficiently into CO2 and that's happening astir the world.
But besides landfills emit tremendous amounts of methane. I'm moving with institution vest, spoon which is mining exclusively connected landfill gases. And there's 2,600 landfills conscionable successful America, you know, enactment erstwhile you're, erstwhile your trash decompos, it releases methane. And immoderate met landfills are capturing that methane and generating energy and putting it to the grid.
Most, the immense bulk are not. And truthful Bitcoin helps to seizure that state and crook it into, to, to CO2 successful a truly cleanable and businesslike way. But I similar this idea, actually, that we look for methane leaks and wherever the methane is coming from from agriculture wastewater attraction facilities, landfills, gas, oil, and gas, byproducts, oil, and state leaks.
We tin spot it from abstraction and similar we tin nutrient these vigor maps wherever we spot wherever the methane is coming from roughly. And we tin nonstop successful Bitcoin miners, similar occurrence jumpers, you know, that's fundamentally methane is energy. It's money. We tin monetize it. And there's thing other that volition bash this job. So yeah, the fig 1 menace to the clime is methane Bitcoin fixes it.
But besides Bitcoin precisely Bitcoin solves the main problems facing renewable development, renewable vigor today, and atomic for that matter. The inflexible sources of load, the large happening astir state and ember is that they're adjustable. You know, you can, you tin set a state turbine works precise easy by consuming much state and wide electricity, oregon crook it down, devour little state and less, little electricity.
Solar. You conscionable get immoderate the prima is giving you wind, you get immoderate the upwind is giving you. And nuclear, it likes to pump retired astatine a very, precise dependable pace. So the existent request of the grid has to beryllium met precisely with the proviso of the system. And those are mismatched and. The upshot of that mismatch is that we extremity up curtailing a batch of renewable and adjacent atomic powerfulness curtailing means we conscionable discarded it.
We don't nonstop it to the grid and we person extremity up having a batch of negatively priced vigor connected the grid astatine assorted times of time and times of year. And that slows the physique retired of caller vigor due to the fact that that negatively priced and wasted vigor is not creating gross for the radical gathering powerfulness plants.
And truthful their Bo their equilibrium expanse doesn't look arsenic good. And by monetizing that discarded vigor and providing a purchaser of it, which Bitcoin mins tin be, we find we marque it financially viable to physique retired caller vigor plants. And the different main happening lasting successful the mode of renewables is interconnection hold times erstwhile you wanna physique a renewable plant.
It's not conscionable that it's unclear what your purchaser volition beryllium and what clip of time connected the grid, but it's besides not wide that you volition get connected to the grid. The hold times vary. I conscionable saw successful Ireland, determination was a 10 twelvemonth hold clip to get connected to the grid. So however are they gonna physique caller powerfulness plants there?
It takes 10 years to get interconnection wherever that's, wherever that's your purchaser of power. So who's gonna concern that and California there's a respective twelvemonth hold to get connected. So Bitcoin fixes this too, by providing a purchaser anterior to afloat grid connection. Bitcoin tin instrumentality the powerfulness disconnected those generators successful the meantime.
And past erstwhile the interconnection is made, the miners determination elsewhere, astir of them and the powerfulness works present feeds the grid. So I, yeah, I'm moving with antithetic kinds of developers of renewable vigor who each admit and spot this astatine immoderate level oregon different due to the fact that they're each facing the occupation of what's called star deflation.
As you get much and much star connected the grid, you person much and much powerfulness astatine definite times of time erstwhile the prima is shining brightly and that powerfulness is little needed. And truthful Bitcoin mins tin excavation with that powerfulness and supply fiscal worth for that excess power, which allows you to overbuild a strategy with renewables, which past tin go a robust strategy similar you underbid with renewables.
You know, and past you person a, a lag and prima and wind. You, you mightiness not person immoderate powerfulness connected the grid if you, if you overbuild and the magnitude you person to overbuild by is estimated otherwise successful antithetic places and by antithetic people. But if you overbuild renewable capacity, past you'll person little hazard of not gathering powerfulness demands.
So fundamentally arsenic the grid gets to beryllium precocious penetration, renewable. It's bully for the atmosphere. It's precise atrocious for the grid. It it's inter intermittent and Bitcoin fixes the problems mostly financially by providing a purchaser for powerfulness that didn't person a purchaser and making these projects financially viable.
And we just, conscionable similar a subsidy, conscionable similar a authorities subsidy, basically, but it's not a authorities substance, you know, Joe mansion similar killed disconnected the, the vigor information of Biden's bill. And it's like, okay, you know, Bitcoin doesn't request Joe mansion. It tin bash the aforesaid happening conscionable privately and it volition bash it efficiently.
Right. It won't bash it for powerfulness projects that don't marque sense. It's not gonna be, you know, star successful the Arctic circle. It's it's, it's going to beryllium the escaped marketplace finding. Think of it this way, Bitcoin puts a level nether vigor prices worldwide due to the fact that it's determination agnostic due to the fact that it's clip agnostic.
It produces the aforesaid magnitude of Bitcoin from the aforesaid magnitude of energy, anyplace astatine immoderate time, anyplace successful the satellite with an net connection, that means Bitcoin volition question retired the cheapest vigor worldwide and monetize it. Right? So if you tin find cheaper vigor somewhere, ah, Bitcoin volition conscionable travel there.
And that's going to be, not lone is it going to accelerate the physique retired of renewable, which close present is the cheapest power. Solar's the cheapest powerfulness close now. But it's going to bash it successful an businesslike way, dissimilar subsidies, which are gonna beryllium taxable to politics. Anyway, how's that for an answer.
[01:14:19] Q: If I could find the unmute, I would've said that was beautifully put, and honestly, I conscionable needed to cognize wherever I tin ticker the afloat speech erstwhile it happens. Troy.
[01:14:25] Troy Cross: Thank you. And I mean, this is each worldly that Bitcoin does automatically. I mean, I person my ain thought astir however to, if you're an ESG conscious capitalist and you and you are acrophobic astir the c footprint of Bitcoin, however you tin clasp Bitcoin successful a wholly c neutral mode simply by mining immoderate Bitcoin arsenic good alongside your holdings.
That's the thought that brought maine into this abstraction a twelvemonth ago. And fundamentally the thought is if you ain X percent of each Bitcoin bash X percent of mining successful a, successful a precise debased c way. If you ain 1% of each Bitcoin bash 1% of each mining. And erstwhile you mine, Bitcoin, you summation the trouble for each different mins, due to the fact that you find blocks sooner than 10 minutes.
And past the trouble accommodation brings america backmost to 10 minutes by making it harder. So that's a disincentive to each different minors. When you bargain Bitcoin, you springiness an inducement to each their miners due to the fact that you marque their Bitcoin worthy more. You marque their artifact reward worthy more. So if you tin bring these 2 incentives into balance, 1 is an inducement to mine, and 1 is an inducement not to mine.
Then you'll, you won't beryllium giving immoderate incentives to different Bitcoin miners anyplace successful the world, either affirmative oregon negative. And truthful your c footprint volition beryllium adjacent to the c footprint of your ain mining and none, nary different mining. And that merchandise is thing I'm trying to develop. I'm moving with a fig of firms.
There's, it's hard to bring a existent merchandise to market. I'm a philosopher. You know, I, I similar woody successful the realm of ideas. Real products are antithetic but I anticipation to person you know, an ETP oregon an ETF that's disposable to plebs and to organization investors. So I tin locomotion into the ESG committee alternatively of having amended them from the crushed up astir Bitcoin and however it's gonna alteration our vigor future.
Just. Here's a mode to bash it, conscionable bargain this, this thing, which is similar G B TC, but it besides has a tiny, tiny percent of it is devoted to mining either similar mining connected landfills oregon mining successful micro grid installations crossed the planetary south, you know, there's similar a cardinal radical who don't person entree to electricity.
How would you similar to bargain immoderate hash complaint that really helps monetize the physique retired of those microgrids for the planetary southbound speech astir ESG? Like that's an astonishing story. I would, I'd emotion to beryllium a portion of, and I'd emotion to springiness Bitcoiners oregon really my assemblage isn't truly Bitcoiners. It's pre pointers.
I'd emotion to springiness pre pointers entree to a mode to clasp Bitcoin. That is provably c neutral and which is 99.5% Bitcoin and 5.5% Bitcoin mining.
[01:17:05] P: Very interesting.
Hmm. I, I I emotion the thought of what we were talking astir earlier, you know, conscionable fundamentally similar radical should beryllium capable to bash immoderate they privation with their ain assets.
And I deliberation that what you're talking astir arsenic the imaginable to fulfill that, that circumstantial need,
[01:17:24] Troy Cross: Of radical who exactly. So it's thing similar erstwhile you disagreement done the bullshit ESG, which is apical down, which is dictated to you, that conscionable ridiculous metrics, blah blah, from the underlying impulse to put successful immoderate the hellhole you wanna put in.
Then you person to look astatine the classes of investors and say, what are they looking for and however bash we entreaty to them? And I deliberation Bitcoin itself is already ESG successful this, successful the existent ESG sense. It's already ES. , but I deliberation if you privation to beryllium definite that you're holding Bitcoin successful a wholly c neutral way, we tin bash that.
And we don't person to person a, determination are different radical retired there, idiosyncratic other speaking astatine this conference, actually, you know, who agrees with me, but is selling similar a token to greenish your Bitcoin. And that token is, you know, similar gives you a accidental successful the Dow and the token goes to the Bitcoin minor. No, the token got greases.
I mean, what they're doing is forgiving your c senses God, the caller is the they're they're they're. Yeah, exactly. So it it's the new, you know, Premar Luther Catholic church. These are indulgences. There's a batch firms retired there. They privation to instrumentality God wealth from you and forgive your. You know, I mean, that's what c credits are astatine their core.
That's what c recognition are. They're bullshit due to the fact that they don't really work. Exactly. It's implicit horses shit. And the res the instrumentality connected a c recognition is minus 100% financially. Yeah. But, and what you could bash alternatively is instrumentality up your relation arsenic a Bitcoin national successful the Republic of Bitcoin and bash a small spot of mining, you know, Hey, erstwhile I came connected committee successful 2011, we each mind, you know, and truthful it's sounded similar a throwback, like, Hey, bash a small spot of mining and you know, you don't person to, but bash you privation to, and past if you wanna mind, similar what benignant of mining would you similar to beryllium a portion of would you similar to conscionable maximize the instrumentality connected your Bitcoin, past we'll conscionable find similar the cheapest mode for you to caput that returns this fixed magnitude of Bitcoin.
Maybe that would beryllium green, possibly that won't would you similar to hindrance Bitcoin successful a mode that helps to accelerate the rollout of energy to the planetary south? Would you similar to excavation Bitcoin successful a mode that helps cleanable up methane emissions from American landfills? Do you wanna accidental children. Do you wanna prevention the children?
Exactly. Yeah. But bash you wanna prevention the children with Bitcoin mining? Exactly. And if radical wanna bash that, similar much powerfulness to them, man, I'm I'm so, I'm truthful pumped astir landfill mining about, I enactment with hydro insignificant wines with fundamentally excess energy from Niagara falls. I deliberation that's a, that's a large thing.
I mean, taking fundamentally a burned retired ammunition of a post-industrial assemblage that's losing colonisation each year, bring successful immoderate minors, harness that vigor instrumentality vantage of the infrastructure that's near implicit from erstwhile New York was a was an concern powerhouse and it bid radical connected on this caller industry.
Like, I deliberation that's wonderful. So it's fundamentally similar prime the forms of mining you, you you similar and put successful them. Do 'em a small spot on with your Bitcoin oregon not? There's thing mandatory astir it and no, I mean, I'm not shaming anyone, but I. I deliberation that's the different portion astir ESG that, that people, that ranks radical is it seems to beryllium digit wagging endeavor and radical don't similar being shamed.
I don't similar being shaped particularly for how, however I put my money. You know, if, if it, if it's if it's shame worthy, past wherefore don't you conscionable marque it illegal? Like, wherefore don't we just, you cognize what I mean? If the enactment is shame worthy, past passive freaking law, we person a democracy. I don't kinda similar this, this different avenue of capitalist pressure, which is you know, the, the digit wagon benignant is like, that's just, I, successful general, radical are truly judgey.
You know, radical are ace judgey astir everything. I mean, that's what Twitter is. It's similar a spot wherever radical justice different radical and I, I'm not into judgment. And, and my, my attraction to you know, similar giving radical ways to put that lucifer their values. Are not astir judging the radical who don't instrumentality up those products.
Not astatine all. It's not astir that. It's conscionable astir like, it's like, it's capitalism, man. It's like, you spot a need, you conscionable the need. You cognize what I mean? So it's like, I spot a buyer, I spot a seller. I spot idiosyncratic gathering retired micro grids. Do they person large uptime connected those microgrids successful Africa? Like, no, they don't person large uptime.
The instrumentality connected the Ash complaint is gonna beryllium subpar, but they are monetizing discarded vigor successful a mode that I wanna promote. Am I consenting to instrumentality a deed connected that? I whitethorn beryllium capable to, some, I may, whitethorn beryllium up for that. Other radical mightiness not, they mightiness conscionable wanna instrumentality maximum connected their hash complaint successful which lawsuit they tin bash that.
Right. It's like, depends connected your ain values and no, no, nary judgement either way. I'm not saying radical each request to beryllium like, you tin lone put in. Blah, blah, blah. No, you're saying radical should person a choice. People should person a choice. I, I don't cognize however that could beryllium arguable really. Somehow it is, but I don't know.
It could beryllium controversial. I mean, I deliberation due to the fact that
[01:22:14] Q: of each the baggages associated with the thought of ESG, right? It's like, arsenic you said, we spent astir of this conversation, similar benignant of deconstructing what ESG is and what, and what it means.
[01:22:22] Troy Cross: Man ESG is like, it's become, I said this astatine the Bitcoin conference, it's go telesonic it's similar you invoke it similar a tone similar ESG.
Yeah. And past like, it's similar a, immoderate radical are like, it's, you know, similar everything successful our society. Yeah. Yes.
[01:22:37] P: You accidental trooper co excessively galore times he'll look and sucked the goat retired of you, which lives wrong each of us. Bloody Mary bloody, Mary
[01:22:44] Troy Cross: bloody. Mary. Exactly. It's go this. Like totally. I wanna similar take, I cognize I'm I'm I'm, I'm I'm impassioned, but I privation to instrumentality the somesthesia down connected this one.
And beryllium like, let's deliberation done successful a nuanced and cautious mode astir what we bash and what, what, what pisses america disconnected erstwhile radical accidental ESG and what, what, what is it that pisses america off? You know, what is it that we hatred astir it? And past is determination thing underlying that, I mean, that's worthwhile due to the fact that this is, this is ever however things are successful life.
Right? Things are ever complicated. so, truthful you ever excavation in, you wanna like, what did, what was the impulse to this successful the archetypal place? And tin we salvage it and tin we reclaim it successful a mode that doesn't piss america disconnected you know, you know, and I, I anticipation we, I anticipation we travel with that benignant of nuance and possibly I'm, you know, it's conscionable similar the world portion of me, but, and sometimes things truly are simple, right?
Like immoderate things are simple, similar conscionable similar bargain and clasp Bitcoin sometimes it conscionable is that simple. But this one, I anticipation we can. Be nuanced astir and, and, you know, look astatine the radical who are investing successful ESG and deliberation astir their underlying motivations. That they're good. It's like, it's similar ma and pop, you know, they saved and worked their full lives.
And past they perceive this scary communicative astir atrocious firm governance, astir atrocious societal effects astir biology pollution. And they're like, oh, I don't privation to bash that. Okay. How bash we service those people, ma and popular who saved up? That's like, that's their labour and they don't privation to lend it successful immoderate ways.
And they bash privation others. So wait, you're saying,
[01:24:21] Q: you're saying the reeducation camps are bad. no. Wait, each joking aside. I bash wanna marque definite you person clip to archer radical wherever they tin find you halt P archetypal last questions. Troy, person you been to Amsterdam before?
[01:24:38] Troy Cross: Yes. I've been to Amsterdam.
[01:24:39] Q: What bash you deliberation of erstwhile you archetypal deliberation of erstwhile idiosyncratic says to Amsterdam, what's similar the archetypal happening that
[01:24:43] Troy Cross: comes to your mind?
Bicycles. sorry. I mean, it's a truly nasty airport, an astonishing bicycle scene. I'm a cyclist. And truthful they've done really, truly good with motorcycle infrastructure, but what were you gonna say? You were gonna say, you're gonna accidental the conference.
[01:24:58] Q: I wanted to inquire you of immoderate Bitcoin league oregon league you've attended.
Who's a talker that you privation you'd seen oregon 1 that you person not yet seen successful person.
[01:25:08] Troy Cross: Oh man, this is tricky due to the fact that I've, I've been truthful fortunate to conscionable truthful galore fantastic radical and astatine Bitcoin events implicit this year, but I would person to accidental my co-author. My co-author connected this achromatic insubstantial we wrote unneurotic Andrew Bailey.
Who's a prof of doctrine astatine Yale and caller nationally assemblage of Singapore, Yale and us. Who's successful the america close now. Writing a publication connected Bitcoin, Andrew. One of the astir stimulating radical I've ever talked to connected Bitcoin, he's besides an astonishing lecturer and teacher and I mean, helium should wholly beryllium connected the circuit.
[01:25:41] P: George, people it down. You got it. All right, Pete, delight instrumentality america away. No, I was gonna accidental like, wherever tin radical find you however they enactment successful touch? What is your Twitter handle? What's your idiosyncratic telephone number? Address
[01:25:54] Troy Cross: our information number. And birthday. Yeah. And, and what is median sanction and archetypal born?
Yeah, I I'm astatine Thero Crow connected Twitter astatine the TRO quo and that Twitter has go my location successful the past year. I, I spent excessively overmuch clip connected Twitter. Thank you guys for having maine connected really, truly admit it. This is simply a fantastic discussion. Thanks for being open. I deliberation we pushed. You know, beyond immoderate sh lefts and casual sayings successful a small spot much deeply.
And I truly appreciate, you know, your, your, your unfastened and mindedness and creativity today. Yeah,
[01:26:27] P: absolutely. Man. We gotta person this one. We, we gotta spell into much extent successful the adjacent future. I ever appreciate, arsenic I said, astatine the beginning, your, your approach, your willingness to prosecute successful immoderate taxable openly, alternatively than conscionable being similar die, helium past which you had screened maine a mates times before, determination were extreme, you know, extraneous circumstances, but yeah, man, we'll person to person you backmost soon.
[01:26:47] Troy Cross: Thanks truthful much. This was great.
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