Meet the Man Behind Associated Press' Crypto Strategy

The Associated Press, a corporate of much than 1,300 quality organizations, mightiness beryllium the archetypal DAO (decentralized autonomous organization). At least, that’s what the white-haired, New Jerseyan down its blockchain experiments, Dwayne Desaulniers, has said.

Over the past year, the AP has made newsworthy leaps into the satellite of blockchain. In October, it partnered with Chainlink Labs to motorboat a node and propulsion news onto Ethereum. For the U.S. elections successful the adjacent month, it worked with decentralized encyclopedia Everipedia to people and sphere its contention calls. And, astatine the opening of this year, the AP unveiled a Polygon-based NFT marketplace wherever it volition auction immoderate of its Pulitzer Prize-winning photos.

That’s a batch of enactment for a 175-year-old organization, wide regarded arsenic 1 of the astir sober and reliable quality organizations near standing. But possibly it’s not truthful surprising. The not-for-profit has often been speedy connected the gully erstwhile it comes to technological innovation, Desaulniers said. It was aboriginal connected the telegraph, tv and colour photographs – ever successful hunt of the champion mode to get much quality retired there.

Blockchain, the technological innovation that combines immutable record-keeping and decentralized consensus, was a earthy fit. But crypto’s comparatively short, 13-year lifespan is littered with failed media projects. It turns retired the colloquial “first draught of history” often needs to beryllium rewritten. (In 2019, for instance, the AP Stylebook, the spelling and grammar usher CoinDesk uses, said “crypto” isn’t proper shorthand for cryptocurrency, but cryptography.)

Desaulniers, who started retired arsenic a newsman and transitioned into media concern development, is not discouraged. And neither is the cooperatively tally media behemoth down him. Tasked with searching for caller ways to make revenue, crypto, erstwhile a $3 trillion industry, was a no-brainer. Micropayments, NFTs and societal tokens are each prospective ways for media companies to physique businesses.

It’s aboriginal days yet and inactive risky, but the AP is taking it slow. Desaulniers spoke with CoinDesk astir the AP’s experiments truthful far. Blockchain has yet to go a moneymaker, but this whitethorn beryllium a utile usher for immoderate yeoman journalists looking to leverage crypto to wage the bills truthful they tin write.

Over the past 2 years, determination person been a fewer organizations that person dipped their toes into crypto. Like much than conscionable NFT branding experiments, but truly engaging with the tech: PayPal, Square, the Associated Press. It ever seems similar these changes typically travel from the agitation of 1 committed crypto idiosyncratic astatine a firm. Is that you?

I'm a erstwhile writer arsenic well. In the ‘90s I fell successful emotion with exertion and the internet, and I was just, like, “what is this gonna bash to news? Is it good? Is it bad?” I've conscionable been moving successful tech and concern improvement ever since. That was my existent relation astatine AP, uncovering caller gross from non-traditional sources to money the journalism that we do. In the summertime of 2020, I got a telephone from Everipedia asking if we thought astir publishing predetermination information connected the blockchain. That started a weeks-long education.

We deployed our API and erstwhile we made a contention telephone it deed the node and a fewer astute contracts – that was the precise beginning. We were stunned that this full situation [crypto] has large trouble porting information implicit from the internet. It's similar this bare vessel. There's this full system that needs bully accusation – that's precise overmuch aligned with our halfway business. We're a quality wholesaler, we're not-for-profit, B2B. If we get a consciousness that there's a assemblage that needs bully information, and boy, we should get connected that.

Do you person a full squad of researchers, coders and concern types?

After we did that predetermination experiment, a batch of colleagues – wholly organically – who shared an involvement successful crypto got involved. It’s an advertisement hoc set of folks that wanted to recognize what this was each about. Somehow successful this planetary company, we each recovered each other. There's still, like, nary existent authoritative team. My bosses person said, “you're the feline successful charge,” but isolated from a title, we don't truly person thing official. There’s maine from the income side, a mates radical from lawsuit service. Obviously, immoderate of our journalists (photographers successful particular) are helping.

The much we looked astatine it, the much investigating and small pilots that we did, the much pleased we were with the results and what we were seeing. Everyone loves the accidental to fig retired what’s the aboriginal of quality connected this level called “blockchain.” Where bash NFTs and adjacent the metaverse – that's thing that we're looking astatine – travel in?

That's wherever we're astatine today. We did 4 NFT drops past twelvemonth connected OpenSea, Ethernity and Binance. We're wholly playing the tract to larn however is Binance antithetic from OpenSea from our perspective.

What did you find there? Are determination quantitative oregon quantitative metrics you’re looking astatine to spot which level to usage agelong term?

Number 1 is: however did the merchantability spell if it's an auction oregon selling astatine a fixed price? How overmuch does the marketplace assistance america with marketing? Would they springiness america a placement connected the carousel? Would they assistance connected Twitter? We did a fewer AMAs [ask maine anything] and observed who was attending. This is not scientific, but we surely had a very, precise beardown consciousness that Binance was heavy exposed successful Asia. That was 1 notable difference. We besides asked what the fees were like? Fees were a minimal consideration: We're not greedy, we're sharing wealth with everybody who's helping us.

It's acold much important to get the learning and past fig things retired arsenic to whether this is going to beryllium a real, authoritative enactment of concern for us. We sold our archetypal NFT for 100 ether backmost successful March, truthful that got radical internally to wage attention.

Yeah, it was unbelievable.

There indispensable beryllium concerns too.

No uncertainty astir that. We’re precise acrophobic astir the progression of the technology, particularly concerning the environment. For the marketplace that we're going to launch, we're going with Polygon due to the fact that it's a drastically smaller impact.

This mightiness beryllium projection, but determination seems to beryllium wide skepticism astir crypto from professionals extracurricular of the industry, particularly among journalists. Did you person to bash a batch of convincing internally to get AP photojournalists involved?

The happening we had to bash much than thing was education. You know: What is the blockchain? What is an NFT? That was occupation fig one. Even contiguous the cognition is inactive broadly very, very, very, very, precise low. We conscionable wanted to beryllium thoughtful astir what we were doing. We didn't privation to conscionable raid the archives and spot however overmuch wealth we could make. We thought if the photograph assemblage is growing, and if this exertion allows them to consciousness much assured and unafraid successful acquiring an AP photo, past that's perchance a truly bully thing.

So that's our attack with photographers: We stock gross and thatch them however to acceptable up their wallet truthful they tin instrumentality vantage of nonstop outgo and secondary sales. We’re trying to beryllium just with this caller imaginable market

I was trying to find a pugnacious question to inquire a erstwhile writer and was going to inquire what an NFT marketplace would mean for news, what are determination ethical considerations astir individuals owning quality photographs, which, successful a sense, beryllium to the world. But that’s not precisely fair, due to the fact that it ignores the world that conscionable astir each integer quality representation is already gated by Getty.

Yeah, exactly. Do you deliberation crypto marketplaces similar AP’s NFT app could bargain marketplace stock from these representation monopolists?

Well to reply the archetypal question astir quality ethics: We don't spot the blockchain astatine this constituent arsenic a mode to administer our regular quality report. It conscionable doesn't work. If we ever person to marque a correction to a story; it rapidly becomes a mess. For definite things similar predetermination contention calls – wherever it’s exceedingly uncommon to reverse those calls due to the fact that bundle and humans are moving unneurotic to each but guarantee the runner-up cannot overtake the winning campaigner – we consciousness overmuch much comfy putting that benignant of information connected the blockchain.

Blockchain permanence is charismatic due to the fact that it tin beryllium broadcasted wide to the public, but nary 1 tin messiness with, oregon change oregon undo thing really, truly important. We’re trying to fig retired what elements of the exertion we tin extract and usage to further our mission. The ngo is to get much AP facts retired into the world.

And the 2nd question: All the photos that we volition beryllium minting connected this marketplace, they've already been sent to each of our members and each of our customers. We're not yet filing thing wholly caller to the blockchain. We are looking astatine that, but, astatine this point, the photos that we're readying to mint are conscionable immoderate of the champion news, upwind photos, aesthetically, we deliberation we've done successful the past fewer years.

Have you heard of Polymarket?

It's an Ethereum-based predictions marketplace that was precocious dinged by the CFTC for offering unlicensed binary options. In my bosom of hearts I wanted to spot thing similar it make into a existent web primitive, a mode to marque bets crossed the net to assistance america resoluteness the information oregon combat fake quality by putting a terms connected truth. A large scope that’s adjacent little realistic now. To immoderate extent, Polymarket is the perfect usage lawsuit for what the AP is doing by pushing accusation retired to blockchain. Does the regulatory situation bounds the interaction you tin person moving with astute contracts?

Publishing accusation on-chain is astir apt the astir accepted of each our blockchain projects – it’s conscionable distributing information. Working with Chainlink, we fundamentally asked what is the accusation that’s needed? [Feeding] DeFi is evidently mode up determination astatine the apical of the list. I’m perpetually looking implicit my enarthrosis astatine regulation, watching what's happening determination and just, like, checking the vibe. We've had ideas that – let’s say, if the authorities whitethorn beryllium turning sour, we’d conscionable stop. We don't privation to get progressive with that. We’re mindful of who's utilizing the material.

With regards to sports, which is simply a ample marketplace for us, we had a precise large ethical dilemma. About 4 years ago, immoderate states started to legalize gambling and sports betting. We person a ton of accurate, verified sports data, and it's each technically, beautifully structured. We went backmost and distant connected whether it was ethical to enactment this worldly retired determination for betting. Initially, the reply was no, but that changed arsenic much and much jurisdictions opened up and it became a legit business.

We're taking the aforesaid attack with trying to recognize however astute contracts volition usage our information that we privation to enactment connected our node. When we observe a lawsuit that's funny successful a peculiar information set, we'll person the quality with our systems to beryllium ace selective astir what stories spell where. I spot it arsenic an wholly caller system that's missing information. And for a quality institution similar AP that's a beauteous sizable, if theoretical, opportunity.

Do you person immoderate projections there?

I wouldn't accidental it's a ceremonial established enactment of concern due to the fact that it's truthful early, there's inactive truthful overmuch to larn and there's decidedly risk. Honestly, we're not budgeting expected gross from immoderate of these projects. We could conscionable propulsion the plug connected everything tomorrow.

How profitable has the Chainlink node been?

So full transparency – it's early. It's a operation of waiting to find the close customers that privation the information that we've got. That's conscionable going to instrumentality immoderate time. I don't deliberation I should stock the number, but honestly, Dan, it's conscionable not precise overmuch astatine each astatine this point. Although we did marque wealth disconnected the predetermination information successful 2020 – astir $50k. But, you know, that was predetermination data, it was a brainsick election, it was globally important, determination was a immense magnitude of attraction which is wherefore it was that profitable.

How does concern improvement enactment – are customers reaching retired to the AP oregon Chainlink, typically?

With Chainlink, we're trying to find customers wherever we've got a truly bully match, and past enactment to get the information to those guys. We people each accusation astir however to entree our node online. I deliberation folks with experience, they perceive done selling that the AP has nationalist information and hook up to our node. But Chainlink besides does immoderate matchmaking betwixt industries and companies, truthful that's chiefly however things person been moving truthful far.

What bash you marque of the litany of failed crypto-media experiments?

There was a truly absorbing aviator done 3 years agone called Civil wherever a clump of journalists issued a coin that allowed those who had involvement to respond to news. Theoretically, determination would beryllium a assemblage that would beryllium incentivized to prosecute with stories and cheque things that were suspicious. It was a batch of fun, and we learned a ton – but the happening was conscionable mode excessively early. Man, I recovered it ace analyzable conscionable mounting up the wallet and whatnot. Setting speech those mechanics and the operations, it was a truly bully mode to fig retired however to usage this exertion to further our mission.

Going backmost to the election. Having a tamper-proof dataset that’s broadcasted to clients and the satellite is each good and good. But there's benignant of this “last mile” occupation of radical really trusting this information. I don’t cognize if I should get into each the ways the 2020 predetermination unraveled, but tin these blockchain experiments ever really reconstruct spot – is that possible?

Yeah, you're perfectly close to inquire however this tech tin really assistance us. Take quality photography, does the exertion let a quality user to separate much easy a existent photograph oregon video from a heavy fake? That's a truly important usage lawsuit that a batch of organizations – The [New York] Times, The Washington Post – are funny in. From the presumption of amended facts, warring fake news, it's 1 of the champion tools I've seen.

Then, connected the concern side, it’s allowing america to bash things we ne'er adjacent imagined. When idiosyncratic buys an AP photojournalism token, and past sells it, the lensman tin besides get a information of that secondary sale. We've never, ever been capable to bash that before. The licenses that we issued to radical to usage our photos has been a full dormant end. We springiness you a idiosyncratic license, you tin bent the photograph connected the partition aft it’s printed, but that's it. But NFTs could let america to really widen that marketplace and let the licence itself to person immoderate worth that tin beryllium passed on and traded with profits continuing to travel backmost to photographers and the AP.

In a way, this exertion besides helps america physique tools to assistance individuals marque amended informed choices astir what they're speechmaking oregon what they're looking astatine – to find whether it's existent oregon not oregon misleading.

There’s a beauteous punctuation from a erstwhile interrogation wherever you said, “The AP is the parent of each DAOs.” Any plans to migrate AP governance connected chain?

No plans, but the parallels are undeniable. The AP is simply a co-op, it’s member-driven, determination are bylaws, a committee that represents the full and makes decisions – it's successful our DNA to run that way. We’re ever asking what the co-op volition look similar if the media scenery continues to change. DAOs came up successful an R&D conversation; we compared our 175-year-old governance exemplary to our knowing of a DAO and didn't spot a cleanable fit, but, boy, there's capable determination that we truly privation to understand.

I uncertainty a DAO volition ever regenerate the AP, but what mightiness hap is we prime a subset of quality – a niche country similar statehouse quality reporting – and experiment. The DAO exemplary is large for thing similar that. Sadly, truthful galore statehouse reporters person mislaid their jobs implicit the past fewer years and near the business. There’s accusation that needs to beryllium successful the nationalist domain but is hard to sustain. A DAO could beryllium an absorbing solution.

Josh [Quittner] astatine Decrypt spun up PubDAO – helium told maine they’re trying for “AP connected the blockchain.” Great for Josh, but a small excessively far, excessively accelerated for us. We’ll larn from them.

Any different words of contented for media types looking to experimentation with crypto?

You know, we're not going into this arsenic experts. We're learning arsenic accelerated arsenic we can, and arsenic overmuch arsenic we can. We're trying to beryllium originative and marque originative uses of the technology. But nary of america privation to get fired. So we're very, precise cautious astir the decisions we're making and however acold we're going. It's going to beryllium a truly absorbing section successful presumption of being portion of the radical that figures this worldly out. Is determination a relation for quality connected the blockchain? The information that I get paid for asking that is benignant of a bonus.